By David F. Rooney
For the past several days there has been an odd little debate raging on The Stoke List, Revelstoke’s free classified website. I call it odd because of some of the views expressed, the weird sense of entitlement expressed by some and, too, because some people who use the Stoke List have tried to get the debate off the list and onto a chat forum, to no apparent avail.
With her consent I am posting some of these comments. You’ll note that with one exception they are all anonymous. Cheers
May 11
RIDING A BIKE – ()
Reply: list+4040@thestoke.ca
Just curious about the bike laws, I know you are not suppose to ride a bike on the sidewalk. But my concern is….I have a child who has autism who is in her early teens….and loves to ride her bike….but I am concerned about a small group of drivers are not very considerate to people on bikes. My question is….should my child ride her bike on the sidewalk because of her cognitive skills??? Should she be ticketed for riding on the sidewalk??? Any feedback?
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RE: — RIDING A BIKE — (be concerned) – Priceless (Revelstoke )
Reply: list+4041@thestoke.ca
So the new laws are : 29$ – no helmet 109$ – on the sidewalk 109$ – against the traffic I found it pretty hard to follow these rules when I am on Victoria road especially, or going on bridges cause its really narrow.. if i have to follow the rules, i think i would of been hurt by now. I have been honked at me few times at night for being on the road I think your kid should stay on the side walk for sure, maybe you can get a special permit (sounds overboard but might be your best guess) i think there is something we can do .. In most of the cities they have signs saying : SHARE THE ROAD (with a symbol of a car and a bike). We need those signs to tell the drivers that bikers are considered like vehicules and they have to be carefull cause we dont have the choice– and the roads to do it like that ! So hopefully we can find a solution for your kid and all the other kids in this town that need rooms on the road to get home safely. I am with you for any solicitaions to get road signs and better service concerning the biking code. Good Luck and lets make this happen .. we need more safety between Drivers and bikers on the road E.
Location:
Revelstoke
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Re: Bike Helmet Enforcement is Excessive!! – Your life (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4045@thestoke.ca
I agree, adults (presumably responsible) shouldn’t have to wear bike helmets. But…only after they have signed an agreement stating that after an accident the only monetary responsibility of the public medical insurance system is the harvesting of organs from brain dead cyclists to help others that through no fault of their own have a need for them. It’s been my experience that parents are doing a good job of teaching their kids the rules of the road, but a lot of them don’t think those same rules apply to them.
Location:
Revelstoke
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Re: bike helmet – freedom ()
Reply: list+4047@thestoke.ca
I agree that people shouldn’t wear bike helmets… But…only after they have signed an agreement stating that after an accident the only monetary responsibility of the public medical insurance system is the harvesting of organs from brain dead cyclists to help others that through no fault of their own have a need for them. ” 4 real? I thought Canada was a free country but am really starting to see the police state it is. You are a child of the industry if you support such infringements of privacy and freedom. Don’t you know as soon as everyone’s a criminal for something or other, the game’s over?
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May 12
The new bike laws – free (Rev)
Reply: list+4075@thestoke.ca
OK, people, come on. these new laws are here and they are here to stay. there have been similar rules in other countries for YEARS and everyone seems to get along just fine. i know… it sucks to have to go and buy lights for your bike, it seems unnescessary to keep to traffic rules and regulations on the road in a little town like Revy, and it certainly seems to be discouraging people from riding their bikes – a shame that it coincides with the Bike To Work Week, hope the policemen are ready for a busy time nailing unsuspecting cyclists that week? But… realistically these things are in place to keep you, your friends and family, and other road users SAFE. There can be no argument for not wearing helmets. even if you are only going 2 blocks to the farmers market on wide empty streets. sure, you are not gonna fall off, but some idiot in a truck might pull out in front of you and a helmet may save your life. if your hair really looks that good you cant spoil it with a helmet… walk. what i want to know is; where can the general cycling public get clear and comprehensive information about these new laws so we can comply (and don’t get caught out unawares)? and; is the money collected from fines issued due to cycling infringements going towards making cycling in Revelstoke safer? (Bike lanes, signage etc etc) and; if not, why not? someone from the local police force must read the stoke – can you help us out? and lets face it everyone, if the cops weren’t out hunting cyclists, they might have time to spend on other criminal activities like, i don’t know, marijuana or something. then we’d ALL have something to whinge about.
Location:
Rev
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Bike rules!! – a few more brain cells (half way down the hill)
Reply: list+4081@thestoke.ca
Whatever, you guys are forced to wear a helmet, so what? At least you have someone who cares about your safety. I was ridin’ me longboard downtown K-town a few weeks ago and some little city cop wanna be comisionaire gave me a fine for riding my longbord on the sidewalk. Told me I need to ride it out in traffic. What? I asked him if it was safe fo me to ride my skateboard on the street what with all the crazy traffic and he just told me that’s where us skaters need to ride. So I ask him if I must wear a helmet to take on such a suicidal passtime? Nope, this is not a requirement. so if you don’t wanna wear the helmet you can take a longboard. You can bomb any hill you want with any amount of traffic with no worries about purchasing such costly, unfashionable safety devices like a light or helmet. I never make complete stops either, Fugg ’em!!
Location:
half way down the hill
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Re: bike helmet – freedom – ()
Reply: list+4083@thestoke.ca
Police state? You bet it is! Support such infringements of privacy and freedom? Absolutely not! It’s the classic rotten apple syndrome, a few ‘yahoos’ go out and get themselves seriously injured and a few (smarter than anyone else) ‘do gooders’ get together to lobby for a new law to protect the poor dumb ‘yahoos’ under the guise of increased medical insurance costs, and lets face it…all politicians need to explain their existence by helping to pass a law or two no matter how ridiculous it is. More people need to stand up and fight these police state laws before they become law rather than sit around and complain later.
Location:
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May 13
bicycle laws – ()
Reply: list+4089@thestoke.ca
These new bicyle laws are outrageous. This is in regards to the sidewalk law. I can tell you that I ride my bike almost everyday and I always pay close attention to others walking, driving or anyone who happens to be out and about. However I can’t say much for some (***some, not all) the drivers out there, who pay very little attention to the cyclists or even to those who happen to be crossing the street. I live right across from the elementary school in town. And I watch drivers neglet to stop for parents, children or anyone who is crossing the steet. I think the ones we should be concerned for are our walkers, runners and cyclists who are not protected by a full suit of armor. As for the helmet laws, yes its small concern that we should wear helmets, but I think this whole thing is being taken too far. There are millions of issues facing our world, and this is our concern? I can only thank the ones who actually walk, run, bike, skate. At least they are doing their part in the reduction of green house gas emissions. BOOO to the enforcements. Get a life!
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Bicycle Laws – too much (Revelstoke, unfortunately)
Reply: list+4098@thestoke.ca
It’s crazy that law enforcers feel they have to make this into an issue. Concentrate on the real freaking criminals and stop picking on the good citizens. Why are they doing it you ask? It will no doubt be a good money maker for them to catch out some unsuspecting visitors from other countries who haven’t heard how overbearing our law enforcers are in Canada. Trust me, I’ve lived in other countries. I agree with wearing a helmet. It just plain makes sense. You might be a good bike rider but if a situation arises that’s out of your control then it could save your life. As for stopping people riding on the sidewalk, I think this is outrageoous. I ride my bike to work occasionally and am very nervous of the fact that car drivers don’t look out for cyclists enough. I take the road most of the way but I refuse to do so over narrow bridges or along Victoria. There’s no shoulder and I don’t want anxious drivers trying to pass me and maybe not giving me enough room. So I ride on the sidewalk. And I’m very careful doing it. I read the BC bicycle operators manual and it says more accidents are caused when cyclists ride on sidewalks because they don’t stop at sideroads etc. I think this is bullshit. I am completely paranoid about getting hit by a car – THAT’S WHY I’M ON THE SIDEWALK. The BC bicycle operating manual suggests if there is no hard shoulder then bikes should ride in the centre of the road/lane and act like a proper vehicle. Yeah right, I’m sure that’s what drivers want, to be stuck behind our slow-asses. If they are enforcing these laws then we should demand bike lanes. Plain and simple. Do you think the local government would like to SPEND a bunch of money on us cyclists to ensure our safety as much as they want to MAKE a heap of money by giving us these traffic penalty tickets to ‘ensure our safety’. I doubt it. As for stopping at stop signs, yes cyclists should not blast through stop signs. That’s dangerous for everybody. I personally do come to a complete stop at stop signs. On the odd occasion if it’s late at night and no one is around, then I’ve been known the roll through a stop sign for sure. I never do it when it is, in my opinion, unsafe (I’m completely paranoid remember). Should I get a ticket? I don’t know. But this thing about points on your drivers licence? That CAN’T be constitutional. Your driver’s licence has nothing to do with riding a bike, and it’s not a requirement, and until it is then they surely can’t get away with that. Not everyone who rides a bike has a driver’s licence, so this would be discriminating against those who do by penalizing them more than others. I would fight that one all the way. I have not ridden my bike to work recently. I would rather drive my car if I can’t choose to cycle on the sidewalk when I feel unsafe. Well done on saving the environment Revelstoke!
Location:
Revelstoke, unfortunately
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Bicycle law enforcement – (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4114@thestoke.ca
Seems a bit excessive to me too, and not good for the relationship between the RCMP and many of our citizens including our Youth. Would cyclists be fined for such things as fines for not always coming to a complete stop at all stopsigns? What about when there’s very little traffic and the lines of sight and sound are good? Just yesterday, though, I heard first hand from a man who in the past had to slam on his car brakes when a woman towing a buggy with her child in it breezed right through a stopsign. When he yelled at her she yelled back that cyclists have the right of way ! So, some education is definitely in order. Although City Council doesn’t have any control over bicycle laws, and as far as I know we can’t tell the RCMP how to do their job (even though our taxpayers pay a great deal of money for the service, which is one of the top 2 expenses for the City) perhaps I can get some discussion happening with our Staff Sgt at a Council meeting, pointing out the downsides and that we want to PROMOTE the use of bikes . Also, the Transportation Masterplan that’s underway includes planning to make our streets safer for and more condusive to cycling. Be sure to participate in the next public session! But it will likely take many years for such changes to be gradually made.
Antoinette Halberstadt Councillor, City of Revelstoke.
Location:
Revelstoke
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re: Bike law enforcement – up to $167 (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4115@thestoke.ca
I totally agree it’s not good for the relationship between RCMP and citizens and youth. It’s turning good people into criminals. I am sure that some cyclists are not riding safely. Education and awareness is definitely required. I also heard about a woman with her child in a buggy behind her bike breezing through the main four-way stop downtown and not even looking! The man who told me about her said she almost caused an accident! If there is something good to come out of all this then maybe it will be that she learns the rules of the road! As an occasional cyclist (the paranoid one) of course I understand the importance of obeying the rules of the road. Ride in the direction of traffic (not against it), follow road signs and stop signs, I can even see that we should dismount and walk our bikes across cross-walks. It’s safer because motorists can predict what cyclists are going to do and at what speed they will do it. Helmet laws are understandable, and so are the ones about having lights at night. However I don’t agree that we can’t ride our bikes for a short stint on the sidewalk if need be. If they are going to enforce that one then they must do it when the roads have been made more bicycle friendly. As my husband pointed out, he saw a mother riding on the road and her child paralleling her on the sidewalk, learning how to ride a bike safely there before riding on the road. Are the police going to hand the little girl a $109 ticket? Try and put points on her licence when she becomes 16 and gets her learners? Are the police going to hand me a ticket when I ride on the sidewalk of the Illecillewaet bridge because I don’t want to ride down that narrow bridge where motorists come speeding down the hill and can‘t see past the bridge if they want to pass me? This will definitely discourage me from riding my bike. The danger to pedestrians has been cited as the reason police are cracking down on riding on the sidewalk. Have any pedestrians felt in danger because cyclists ride on the sidewalk? I am always careful and will give pedestrians right of way. What about the danger to me on the road there? I want a bike lane on the sidewalk over the bridge. I want a bike lane down Victoria and around the sharp corner where 4th street turns into Victoria. I can’t take an alternate route like they are suggesting! What about when it’s midnight and I can’t hear or see a car around at all and I don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Do I deserve a $109 ticket? I gather that this is the new way of handling things, by giving tickets for lack of a helmet, lights, riding on the sidewalk and not stopping at stop signs. Here is a link for the article in the local paper. I hope you can bring up some issues at your council meetings. Let’s be reasonable here and not punish careful cyclists. What are these public sessions you were talking about? http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/revelstoketimesreview/news/93444979.html There‘s no excuse for making any dangerous maneuver. The woman with the child buggy going through the stop sign deserves the $167 ticket she would get. Heck, she could have killed her child. But I don’t call riding on the sidewalk carefully a dangerous maneuver. Maybe the law enforcers are only threatening these penalties so that the dangerous cyclists will start being sensible? I hope so. For now though, I am not prepared to risk any fines and am going to be safely driving my car thanks.
Location:
Revelstoke
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I saw the police stop a small child riding on the sidewalk – bad karma (Revy)
Reply: list+4116@thestoke.ca
Yesterday while eating lunch at Main Street Cafe, I watched a police officer stop a father and son who were riding their bikes up Mackenzie. The father was riding his bike on the street and was handed a notice for not wearing a helmet, and his young son, who was cycling on the sidewalk beside his dad, was given one for not riding on the street. The sidewalk law is apparently to make pedestrians safer. Are pedestrians really so threatened by small children riding their bikes on the sidewalk to avoid motorists? Ridiculous. Way to boost your already-terrible reputation in town, RCMP.
Location:
Revy
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Revy rcmp – ()
Reply: list+4118@thestoke.ca
What a joke….what next….fines at the swimming pool for not wearing goggles or a life vest?…. I get that the RCMP are just the enforcers of a stupid law…but with the reputation they already have here with the youth, I would think that they had better relax on this and start looking for criminals. Scaring little kids into obeying makes for angry resentful disrespectful adults. BAD KARMA~RCMP…
Location:
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Bike riding on sidewalks – (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4119@thestoke.ca
Just this week I was walking with my dog on the sidewalk along Victoria Rd.(against traffic) when we were forced to move off the sidewalk and onto the road because this older man was riding his bike on the sidewalk. There should be something done with bike riders on the sidewalks. This happens all the time all around town especially around the schools. Don’t pedestrians have the right of way on city sidewalks?
Location:
Revelstoke
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bike laws – a headache (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4120@thestoke.ca
so police are lapping around town in their V6 cop cars, polluting our environment, giving tickets to those who decide to leave the keys at home and take the bike out instead. sounds silly doesnt it…. Maybe instead of riding my bike home after a night at the bar i should drive my car home, and save myself the fine of no light or helmet? sounds silly doesnt it? it may come to this point for many people. how are the youth of revelstoke, or anyone for that matter, meant to hold any respect for these local police if they are just going to harrass everyday citizens, and hand out tickets like they are candy on halloween? officers, why not spend your time tracing down who is responsible for the recent car and home thefts in our community, instead of harrassing HARMLESS everyday people. why not put this man power into stopping the drug smugglers that use highway one each and every day, or even cracking down on drink driving in our town? If anyone in the community knows of any petitions please post the details, this joke needs to stop.
Location:
Revelstoke
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Re: riding bikes on sidewalk – (revelstoke)
Reply: list+4123@thestoke.ca
Yes pedestrians have the right of way, much like they do on the roads. But can’t we share the sidewalks? Pedestrians and motorists seem to be able to share the roads ok. Bikes should give way to pedestrians. Are you so threatened by little kids and little old men on their bikes on the sidewalk?
Location:
Revelstoke
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re: riding on the sidewalks – (Revelstoke)
Reply: list+4124@thestoke.ca
To the dog-walker who doesn’t like the old man cycling on the sidewalk…. What do you do when other pedestrians approach you on the sidewalk? You SHARE the sidewalk. What do you do when a little old person comes towards you in an electric wheelchair? You SHARE the sidewalk. Maybe you could even do this for the little kids riding their bikes on the sidewalk, mysteriously happening near school areas. Maybe, just MAYBE we could even say “hello” to eachother. What is this world coming to?
Location:
Revelstoke
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This isin’t a chatroom, folks. If you want to whine about something call your mommy. – Free Advise (All Over)
Reply: list+4127@thestoke.ca
I’m sure your life is in shambles from the sudden RCMP “crackdown”, judging by the length of your comment you sit on your ass more than you bike around town. I’m trying to buy some used merchandise, so simmer down.
Location:
All Over
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The “new” bike laws…a clarification – ()
Reply: list+4129@thestoke.ca
Well first off to dispel the MYTH that the bike laws are NEW. They’re part of the motor vehicle act. The motor vehicle act is not new. The issue is that they’re about to be enforced based on the fact that a beloved member of this community was killed last year by not wearing a helmet. Secondly to put this issue on par with Impaired driving and drugs in the town is silly. The issue is this: If you don’t like the law then you have a civic duty to go to your Politicians and get the law changed. Police do NOT make the laws. The community of Revelstoke as a whole is promoting SAFE cycling and part of that is giving YOU, the citizens of Revelstoke, TONS OF NOTICE that the enforcement is coming. Be good leaders and show your kids how to be safe. Be good role models and follow the laws. The police are acting in GOOD FAITH because they understand the issues (by giving warnings and promoting the issue in the papers) but if you want the laws changed then talk to your government.
Location:
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Re: Revelstoke Bike Enforcement – ()
Reply: list+4132@thestoke.ca
Fu*k da poleece.
Location:
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Attention Everybody: discussions are for the STOKE FORUM — Not here !!! – ()
Reply: list+4134@thestoke.ca
Attention everybody, For discussions, rants, topics, conversations, etc – use THE STOKE FORUM – not the Stoke List. This is for buying and selling used items! Here, I’ll even post a direct link for you if you are too blind to find it on the main page: http://thestoke.freeforums.org/index.php
Location:
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May 15
The “stoke forum”? who reads THAT? – PRICe? it’s freee isn’t it? (Here and there.)
Reply: list+4140@thestoke.ca
I’m not blind but what the hell is the Stoke FORUM? is that the hockey arena? I am one of them fuggers that has “stoke list” on my favorites, I do not go through the stoke website to get here, we are all addicted to this here page. What junk can I buy today? Besides, any open disscussion about why we feel Revy is going down hill is great, it helps us understand what it is that the community wants. lots of people check this page numerous times a day. So we will winge all we want here, deal with it. Revelstoke is a unique place where people J-walk, skaters can ride through traffic and the children are still allowed to ride their bikes safely on the sidewalk. IT IS A SAFE PLAcE FOR 6 YEAR OLDS TO RIDE. I ride my bike on the road, I am fearless, it’s a reality that some people are scared shitless of bad drivers so they ride their bikes on the sidewalk. THEY ARE SAVING THE ENVIRONMENT, so leave ’em alone. I love revy for the fact I can ride my skateboard around town on the sidewalk in the road and against traffic and the drivers are somewhat trained to look out for crazy asses like myself, it is a way more safe place than say Kelowna for such recless activity. R.C.M.Pigs, please don’t change this town any more than the old locals say it already has changed. We want j-walkers and kids riding their bikes on the sidewalks. I will happily wear my helmet and ride on the street, but you can forget stopping me at the stop sign, good luck catching me.
Location:
Here and there.
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I just checked the “stoke forum,” nobody there, we’ll post here thanks, you will have to filter through what you don’t want. – Free (Rev)
Reply: list+4141@thestoke.ca
there was one post there, and it was some dude wondering why noone uses it, haha. The stoke list is well read and gaining popularity. It is a good place to get your voice heard. please don’t change a good thing. I use it to post stuff for sale and I get calls, no other form of advertising works this well for Revy I have found.
Location:
Rev
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RE: Stoke Forum – (teh interweb)
Reply: list+4142@thestoke.ca
Yes the list sucks for “conversations”, but it’s where people are. The Stoke Forum is an unused hack. It’s not surprising there’s no one there. A) No one visits B) It’s ugly like it’s 2002 I went to start a site dedicated to Revy related conversation (as opposed to Craigslist-lite), but direct links are blocked here (suggesting that they’d rather have this list used for non-list-posts, than have people use a dedicated forum). I recently blew the site around it away to start over with something easier to maintain (so yes, there is pretty much zero content there), but the forum is clean, modern, and available to use if you want. http://tinyurl.com/3a39ttt Visit if you like, or just keep posting in the “list fashion” here (as I suspect will be the norm). The list may be bad at “threading” conversations, but as was pointed out IT’S WHERE PEOPLE ARE CHECKING. p.s.: Since it is on a paid host and not a “freeforum” I can modify it if people want something different.
Location:
teh interweb
